GL: Well yeah, because passion's not just a vocational issue, you know? And isn't one of the great conundrums of relationship is how do we get the passion back? You know? And that's why I wanted to explore it in the context of relationship, you know? I think partly what we're up against, we were talking earlier about the duality between passion and security, right? Part of us wants passion, part of us wants security, it's the same dynamic in relationship; you can substitute the word love for security, alright? Passion and love; these two I think are kind of hard to manage in intimate partnerships because they tend to work toward really different goals, right? Love wants assurances, passion wants abandon; love wants to be soothed, passion wants to be inflamed, stimulated; love wants to go steady - I mean even the language: go steady - and passion wants to be swept away. You know? And I think it's tough to stay worked up over the same person you're looking to for safety and security, you know, assurances and soothing and this is why a lot of people apparently, and I've been there myself, would rather swap heat for warmth, you know? And passion for just companionable bonding, you know? But we've got this idea that it's an either or equation and that's a stinker in my opinion; this notion that you either will have passion in your relationship or serenity, but you're not going to have both right? You're going to have either freedom or commitment but not really both. So what we've got in our minds is this paradigm that says it's either going to be Wuthering Heights or like The Remains of the Day, you know, and it's not. It's not an either or equation, it's both and. Relationship needs both security and passion, and these are - again, this is a stance and a skill that you can bring into relationships; this is not something that's destined to fade you know, six months into the game and then you have just lost it. I just don't think that's the case. Unfortunately to us in our minds, we think of it like a booster rocket in the space program; it's going to launch us into orbit and then it's going to fall back to earth. I think that's a shame that we have that attitude.
Rob: And you really cover this extensively in the book.
GL: Well, I do.
Rob: That's a teaser.
GL: That's a teaser.
Rob: Buy this book. I can't recommend it hardly enough. So, we're coming near the end, I do want to ask you about one thing. In one chapter of your book it's called questing. And in questing you talk about nomads and you specifically talk about Cain and Abel and how Cain, who was part of - how did I - oh I got to find it here. Cain was the builder of the first city, he killed Abel who was a nomad.
GL: Right.
Rob: And then you go on to say that the first archaeological evidence of war is that war began as theft.
GL: Right.
Rob: So, I want to dance around that area a little bit.
GL: Okay, in what sense?
Rob: Well, Cain - we were talking archetypal characters in the bible.
GL: Yeah.
Rob: Cain is the builder of the first city. I have questions about the value of civilization. I mean here we are, we're in the middle of it, it's not going to go away, but civilization has had some side effects, and murder is one of them.
GL: Yeah.
Rob: And war, that came out of farming.
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