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Invisible Success, Civilizations that Die or Quit and Memes We Live By; Transcript of an Interview with Daniel Quinn

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So they needed to have armed guards, and the whole village had to be armed.  And by this time, of course, the division of labor was an established thing.  People made pots, and cloth, and weapons; and the holder of the keys were their royalty (would be considered their royalty, would become their royalty).  The armed forces that protected the storage (and them!) were the nobles, the king's nobles.  The artisans became the middle class.  and at the bottom, of course, were the peons, the peasants who did all the drudge work, did all the lifting and carrying, tilled the fields, planted the crops, harvested the crops, and so on.  And so, from the beginning, there very quickly appeared a necessary hierarchy.  It wouldn't work for them if they didn't have the hierarchy.  It would quickly become an anarchy.

 

Rob Kall:   You know, it seems to me, from what I've read and what you've said so far, that basically, the reason that hierarchies developed is because there were thieves.  There were greedy people who were unwilling to contribute their responsible role and allow sharing properly.  If those kind of people weren't around, it might not have been necessary to have a hierarchy.

 

Daniel Quinn   I'm not sure I -- maybe if you say that again, I'm not sure I understand what you're saying.

 

Rob Kall:   What you're saying is the reason hierarchies had to be formed was because you need to secure the extra food.

 

Daniel Quinn   Yeah.

 

Rob Kall:   And if you didn't secure it, somebody would take it, and that was the reason that there had to be the creation of people with more power, and it was conceivably -- or, based on the idea that you had to protect the food.  But, you know, in my readings, I think it's also the land.  I think that it's the land as well, that part of the problem that leads to hierarchy is also the fact that people get attached to land, they feel ownership, and they feel the need or desire to fight for and protect the land.

 

Daniel Quinn   I suppose that's an aspect of it.  I don't know what they would be protecting it from.  The nomads around them don't want land; they've got plenty of land.  They're not interested in taking over the land, they just want to take over the stuff.

 

Rob Kall:   OK.  I'm sorry I interrupted you.  Keep going.

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