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Rethinking Civilization-- Plunging Earth Into Sixth Extinction; Daniel Quinn Interview Transcript Part 2

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Rob Kall:   And this is a big part of Ishmael, and I have to say again as we wrap up this conversation: Ishmael is an amazing book that will make you think of the world in a very different way, and make you think of yourself and civilization as well.  Daniel, I wonder -- it has to be that there are people who have attacked Ishmael and the ideas in it.  Who have been your attackers?


Daniel Quinn:   They haven't really brought themselves to my attention.


Rob Kall:   Really!


Daniel Quinn:   Really, yeah. (laughs)  Some people sort of tentatively said, "Oh, you're idealizing aboriginal peoples," which is nonsense.  I make a point of saying that they're absolutely no different from us, they're no more noble, or anything like that.  They're just exactly like us, they just happen to have a way of life that works for them.  That's about as far as anyone has gone.  The book is used in hundreds of classrooms in all sorts of subjects: archaeology, anthropology, history, religion, psychology - on, and on, and on.  Teachers really love the book, but scholars have not accepted it into their library yet.  I'm not a scientist, I'm not a scholar, and so I don't come wearing the right clothes to visit their library.


Rob Kall:   You've certainly brought a light into this world that has made a difference that I think will continue to make a difference.  I believe Ishmael was one of the most important books of the last century.  In wrapping up, I just want to thank you.  You've done something really important, and given us all a gift of a way to think; and now this new idea, The Invisibility of Success, it's a powerful concept.  Basically what you're saying is, you have to see how something is successful in order to deal with it, I think.


Daniel Quinn:   Yes.  I want to say that my conversation with you has been great, and as I told you, I was a little nervous in the beginning, since I'd never talked about this before; but I managed to plow right ahead, and I'm very pleased by the outcome.


Rob Kall:   All right.

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Rob Kall has spent his adult life as an awakener and empowerer-- first in the field of biofeedback, inventing products, developing software and a music recording label, MuPsych, within the company he founded in 1978-- Futurehealth, and founding, organizing and running 3 conferences: Winter Brain, on Neurofeedback and consciousness, Optimal Functioning and Positive Psychology (a pioneer in the field of Positive Psychology, first presenting workshops on it in 1985) and Storycon Summit Meeting on the Art Science and Application of Story-- each the first of their kind.  Then, when he found the process of raising people's consciousness and empowering them to take more control of their lives  one person at a time was too slow, he founded which has been the top search result on Google for the terms liberal news and progressive opinion for several years. Rob began his Bottom-up Radio show, broadcast on WNJC 1360 AM to Metro Philly, also available on iTunes, covering the transition of our culture, business and world from predominantly Top-down (hierarchical, centralized, authoritarian, patriarchal, big)  to bottom-up (egalitarian, local, interdependent, grassroots, archetypal feminine and small.) Recent long-term projects include a book, Bottom-up-- The Connection Revolution, debillionairizing the planet and the Psychopathy Defense and Optimization Project. 

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Over 200 podcasts are archived for downloading here, or can be accessed from iTunes. Rob is (more...)

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